Skip to main content

We Need Open Standards in Webcomics

Before getting too far into this, a clarification: open standards and Open Source are not synonymous. Both are objectively good things, and many, but not all, Open Source projects also conform to open standards. Here's the difference, as I understand it: Open Source projects allow programmers to share actual source code, the internal stuff that makes programs work, with one another, and improve upon one another's ideas; open standards, on the other hand, allow programmers to write programs that interact well with programs written by others -- without necessarily having to have an understanding of the internals of the other programs. HTTP, which defines the transport mechanism for web pages, for example, is an open standard. Internet Explorer, a non-Open Source program from Microsoft, can implement HTTP to talk to the talkaboutcomics.com web server, which runs Apache, an example of Open Source software -- and Apache, in turn, can talk back to Internet Explorer using the HTTP open standard. Both web browser and web server are key pieces of software in your experience of browsing the World Wide Web. Neither has to know how the other works, in order to be able to work together -- and you, of course, don't have to know anything about any of that, more than likely. Which is probably why there hasn't been a lot of action on open standards in the webcomics world. Comics creators, after all, are artists. Open standards aren't about artists communicating with people (which is what you do when you make your artistic choices -- choices which should always be left infinitely free) -- open standards are about computers communicating with other computers and computer programs.

But if you're a webcartoonist, you should care about open standards, especially if you are using a webcomics automation system to run your comic, like my own WCN, or one of the other competing hosting/automation platforms, or even one of the many Open Source install-it-yourself systems. These are all examples of "content management systems." Unlike the "good old days" of hand-writing and hand-linking every HTML page yourself, a content management system runs like a machine -- you input the stuff that matters (your comic, your formatting choices) sometimes spending hours to get it just right, and developing, over time, an immense database, then the content management system creates your website for you, generating and linking all the pages automatically. For most webcartoonists, especially those carrying vast archives, using a content management system is the only way to go. There are obvious drawbacks, given the state of webcomics content management systems as they exist today (yes, even my own), but the benefits are even more obvious.

One of the benefits, which has not yet been fully realized, or even, frankly, touched upon much at all, is the possibility that those of us who create content management systems for webcomics could develop a body of open standards which would make life easier for webcomics artists. I see two areas where open standards could come in very, very handy indeed:

1. Searchability and Findability

2. Portability

More on those two below:

Have you ever heard of microformats? The idea, if I understand it correctly, is that the actual meaning of stuff from the Internet can be made more transparent, to other computers, by developing simple, universally-defined markers for particular kinds of content, so that, for example, when the Google searchbot comes upon a web page that also happens to be a review, or a job posting, or a resume, it can be automatically indexed as such, and made available specifically to people who are looking for reviews, or job postings, or resumes, more immediately and reliably than the usual fuzzy language interpretation that "intelligent" searchbots try to perform today to categorize content along those lines. There are solid microformats for things like contact information (digital business cards, you might say) and calendars, and draft specs for things like reviews and resumes. There are plans for more. If we had a webcomic microformat, webcomics search engines and external portals, like OnlineComics.net and The Webcomic List. could take a quantum leap forward, no longer depending on human data entry from readers and cartoonists, but going out and discovering new webcomics (and their RSS feeds -- but that's a subject for another day) automatically.

Likewise, we need some means of sharing webcomics transcriptions and other metadata. At present, most webcomics don't offer transcriptions, of course. That needs to be fixed. What's more, the only automated way to offer transcriptions, OhNoRobot, is a sealed black box, from a computer's perspective -- available to humans to play with, but not fully interactive to other computers and (specifically) difficult for other search engines and content management systems to extract data from and submit data to. I've had some preliminary conversations with Ryan about this (they were dropped because I got busy -- totally my fault, not Ryan's), but there's a lot of work that needs to be done on this issue. The people who make webcomics automation software, like me, need to work hard to make transcription a key part of our projects, either using OCR, having the cartoonists enter transcriptions by hand when uploading the comic, or relying on fans to input transcriptions (the way OhNoRobot does), or some combination of the three. But that's just the beginning. There also needs to be an automated way to extract the transcriptions from the black boxes where they're stored -- ONR being the only significant such black box so far -- so that, say, instead of building a transcription engine within WCN itself, I could, if I wanted, just have WCN connect automatically to ONR and extract the information, for my own indexing and search functionality. Or, assuming that I decide to build my own transcription storing house (which I do), ONR should be able to connect automatically to WCN and do the same. And maybe there's some way to synchronize the two, so that only one transcription is ever the "official" transcription of a comic, and any search engine or content management system participating in the open standard knows exactly which one it is, and where it's stored, and how to access it and index it.

At some point, Ryan and I will probably make this happen for WCN and ONR. But without greater participation from others -- from Comic Genesis and DrunkDuck and the myriad standalone webcomics automation softwares out there, as well as other search engine developers, whether within the webcomics community or from outside the webcomics community -- any cooperation Ryan and I manage to accomplish will only serve to make WCN better (and ONR better) but will not really help webcartoonists and webcomics readers, except for the ones who happen to use our own particular websites.

What we really need is an open mechanism for the creation, formatting, discovery, extraction and synchronization of webcomics transcriptions and other metadata across as many networks and systems as possible. This will make the development and popularization of more webcomics-specific search engines and portals feasible, and that's a good thing. But maybe even more importantly, it will give us a better way to communicate with the Googles, Yahoo's and Ask.com's of the world. Presently, any given example of a webcomic, whose content is "locked" within an opaque (to search engine bots) image file, operates at a disadvantage over, say, a blog entry, or some other standard text-based nugget of content, when it comes to searchability and findability.

Some artists try. They stick transcriptions in their meta headers. Others use "alt" attributes for their image tags. Others just copy/paste the transcription into the visible part of the page, beneath the comic itself. And so on, and so on. Humans can handle that kind of thing -- variable information in variable places. Computers cannot -- or, at least, they're not very good at it. They work best chewing up controlled, well-defined formats and spitting them back out in an index. An open standard, providing predictable and repeatable ways for computers to extract and "understand" the textual content from a webcomic, would go a long way toward solving the searchability/findability problem, for the Googles, for the webcomics-specific projects, and for individual people, too.

Now on to number two: portability. In this case, I'm not talking about being able to read comics on cellphones or PSP's or whatever. What I mean is the ability of a cartoonist to easily pick up his/her webcomic archive, and move it from one automation system to another, or even just to store it on his/her own hard drive for backup purposes. Webcomics automation systems need to be able to spit out their entire archives, to the owner of the material, on demand, and in a format that allows for immediate upload to another system or restoration on the current system, no questions asked. Those of us who build webcomics automation systems work hard, and we deserve some perks (and some of us get quite a few), but one of those perks isn't a lifetime entitlement to our current list of users. But any webcartoonist who has been using a particular automation system for, say, five years, will find that switching systems is difficult as hell. It shouldn't be this way.

I've looked into providing portability on WCN. At the very least, I hope to provide backup-ability (a backup which includes the image files, of course, as well as all the commentary, metadata, transcriptions, and organizing structure of the archive itself) -- but my ability to do so only extends to the WCN system itself. That is, I can let you download your archive, but the only system you'll be able to re-upload it automatically to is another WCN-managed system (Modern Tales, say, or Rocket Pirates). That's because there's no standard format, understood by all the other webcomics automation systems, in existence. It's true that, as a developer, I could spend my time creating a way to output your data to Comic Genesis' date-based filenaming system, or whatever -- but that's not feasible for me. For one thing, I could only support so many particular formats, meaning that a few would be privileged over the others -- strengthening a couple of key competitors, and helping to drive the top 3 hosting sites (mine, Keen's, and DD) even higher up on the food chain than they already are, while leaving start-ups and less popular sites in the dark, still. Two, there's the high probability that Keen or DD could change their format -- either deliberately or incidentally -- breaking my ability to provide automatically uploadable archives. Until there's an open standard, it's not in my interest to do any of this. Once there's an open standard, it's very much in my interest to do this -- because everybody else will be doing it, too (or will be failing in the marketplace, assuming large numbers of cartoonists are educated about the importance of portability and backup-ability) -- meaning that every automation system will be competing directly on its own merits, not on its ability to lock in cartoonists with large archives and making it difficult for them to move away.

So there you go. Thoughts?

A Great Idea!

I am working on a program that will retrive comics and save it to users' harddrive.

This idea of standization of webcomic sites will make life easier on me as a developer. It will be a quatum leap forward!

Instead of focusing on how to extract the right comics in the right way, I can focus on making the application I am developing better. Beside it will speed up developments.

 

To me standard is good. That mean I can complete with other developers on a fairer battleground.

An interesting idea

I like the idea of the microformat. It would be nice to be able to move one's comics effortlessly from one system to another, as I know I like to play around with different systems, and I'm sure others do as well.

I'm the guy who's making Comic Dish, one of the lesser-known webcomic hosts, and I'd be more than happy to participate in something like this if you like.

What's the URL

Xaviar Xerexes's picture

For Comic Dish?

____

Xaviar Xerexes

Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Gnaw.

I run this place! Tip the piano player on the way out.

http://www.comicdish.com/a

http://www.comicdish.com/

a great little site with a ton of easy to use tools

============

The Gigcast

 

============

The Gigcast

Hey Sam -- thanks! I'm

Joey Manley's picture

Hey Sam -- thanks!

I'm doing some behind-the-scenes work to try to attract a few computer science/standards veterans/hardcore programmer types, and maybe even some larger comics industry funding, for this project. Dunno if it'll go anywhere, but if/when it does, we'll definitely be in touch with you -- and with anybody else from webcomics who wants to participate in this.

Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com

No problem :) And just as

No problem :) And just as a note, I am a computer science/programmer type (I'm a programmer/analyst by day, and by night I program Comic Dish) so, though I don't have any experience creating a standard, I'd be more than happy to lend a hand on that as well.

Good to know!

Joey Manley's picture

Good to know!

My goal at this point is to get somebody with a leadership role in one or more major standards under his/her belt to take the project as his/her own, then pull in everybody I can find who has interest in this kind of stuff from the webcomics world to help him/her out -- so you and I and everybody else will be on equal footing, but there will be one Prime Mover we can all trust. That's my goal. I'd love to find somebody who has either worked on one of the better-known microformats, or on Atom or RSS at the standards creation level, etc. Those guys tend to be expensive and uninterested in comics, though. I think. But who knows?

Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com

Wider appeal

Those guys tend to be expensive and uninterested in comics, though. I think.

As Nate said in the TAC comments, the standard might turn out to be useful for a lot of things besides comics. (Especially if it passes the e-sheep test, in which case it should be able to handle big chunks of html code as well as image files.) So maybe you could get "those guys" interested if you suggested this as a more general-purpose standard.

Would the World Wide Web Consortium be any help in this? They're the top guys in web standards, as I understand it.

My guess is that, at best,

My guess is that, at best, the W3C will stay out of it until it's done, and then look it over to see if it meets their standards for a... well... a standard :)

If it does, then they will make it an "official" web standard.

That said, there's no reason not to ask them ;)

Sounds good. If I find

Sounds good. If I find anyone that fits the bill, I will send them your way :)

I dunno, I mean these are

jdalton's picture

I dunno, I mean these are not bad ideas, but what about those of us living "off the grid?" I've never used any system for automating my website because I have a particular idea for how I want it arranged, and that idea is quite different from any of the standard methods of arranging comics I've seen other sites use. I suppose I can see the benefit of transcriptions (not that I've actually transcribed any of my pages), but as long as I'm handling my archives by hand, standardizing the code for them would be pretty much impossible.
Some day we may get to the point where a single method of webcomic distribution becomes so pervasive that people like me are forced to standardize, but I don't think we're there yet.

Jonathon Dalton
Lords of Life and Death

Jonathon Dalton
A Mad Tea-Party

One of the great things

Joey Manley's picture

One of the great things about standardizing is *precisely* that it allows people "off the grid" to participate. RSS, for example, doesn't require the use of WordPress or Webcomics Nation (or even RSSPect) -- at bare minimum, it just requires a text editor and an understanding of the syntax that any HTML author can pick up in fifteen minutes. That's the kind of standards we need.

So, for example, I plan to add transcription functionality to WCN -- and I plan/hope to do it in a way that gets picked up by Google and Yahoo and the other search engines, raising the visibility of the comics on my system across the entire web.

If I do that in a standardized way, that everybody has agreed upon, then you, with your own hand-authored website can do the same, and your comics will compete for attention on an equal footing.

If I do it in a non-standardized way, then, yes, there will be pressure for people to come on board the big CMS's. And that would not be a good goal for anybody except the few of us who own big CMS's.

Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com

The e-sheep test

I'm thinking Jonathon has a point about the archiving. To be really universal, the standards would have to be able to include classy technically-complicated stuff like Patrick Farley's Delta Thrives and Spiders comics with their compositions of carefully-positioned text and images, or Dan Miller's Kid Radd with its html art and trickery. So archiving standards would need to be able to cope with varied and complicated data and be able to take whatever bizzarities the webcomic world throws at them, or risk playing Procrustes.

An open standard can be

Joey Manley's picture

An open standard can be developed which would pass "the e-sheep test" and still be used for more "typical" type webcomics, as well as webcomics that deviate in other ways from the typical webcomic than we can imagine.

We need people with experience developing API's. That kind of thing requires, well, serious computer science.

But I am convinced it can be done. That's what those people do.

Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com

I don't have any particular

I don't have any particular opinion about the points raised in the article, but I wanted to comment that this is the kind of nuts-and-bolts discussion there should be more of. Bravo, Joey!

And Dinosaur Comics is the

Derik Badman's picture

And Dinosaur Comics is the exception to prove my rule....

I'm not really on board with

Derik Badman's picture

I'm not really on board with transcripts, as it feels like a poor man's image search. Comics are more than the word's that go into them (and if they aren't why bother with the pictures), and what is really needed is real image searching capability (which I know there are groups working on).

Creating a microformat is a great idea, though. I've got a hCard implemented on my site, and have been wanting to implement hReviews when I find the time. I don't think creating the microformat would be very difficult, more so getting anyone to write applications to use it and creators to implement it on their sites.

I've not used a webcomics cms, as I do my comic within a Wordpress blog (with a heavily modified theme). Probably RSS or maybe ATOM publishing protocol would be an already existing way to transfer content. In that sense webcomics are not all that different than blogs. Maybe it's the cms that need to change to use these already existing standards rather than have a new standard.

Thinking about this, now has me a little worried about how much trouble it's going to be getting my archives onto the Rocket Pirates site.

One of my goals for the next

Joey Manley's picture

One of my goals for the next year, year-and-a-half of development on WCN is to provide an easy way to import webcomics from, and export webcomics to, WordPress and Blogger powered sites. Maybe when the time comes to launch Rocket Pirates (which uses the WCN system), you and I can get together and I can use your WordPress data as an early test-run on the import mechanism -- a process which would possibly not be reproducible to all cartoonists in an automated way for quite some time, but I'm pretty sure I could get this done for you as a one-off fairly quickly, and learn stuff in the process that would help me reach larger WCN milestones.

Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com

Wouldn't want to wait

I'm not really on board with transcripts, as it feels like a poor man's image search... what is really needed is real image searching capability (which I know there are groups working on).

That would be the ideal, but I don't know how long that would take to come. It would probably take some fairly sophisticated artificial intelligence to search reliably for, say, "fez-wearing mouse changing lightbulb." It would be better to make a transcript-using system now and adapt it later, rather than put dreams on hold waiting for maybe-future tech.

Man, Joey, that is a whole

Scott Story's picture

Man, Joey, that is a whole lot to consider. As someone who just took an entire day to mirror my Graphic Smash strip over to Webcomicsnation, I feel what you are saying. And, the idea of social tagging the strip has intrigued me for a long time.

My view: A Webcomic Standard or Protocal should be modular, so any new webcomic portal code guy can grab it and it and incorporate it. For example, they could then use the fact that their their new portal is WCP 1.0 compliant, or whatever. My feeling is that once two of the major portals adopt said standard, then the others would feel compelled to adopt for competitions sake.

I would give the standard itself its own website, and make it open source.

I guess if otheres didn't adopt it, the worst thing you would get is an improved portal of your own.

I wish I was a coder, because this is jut the kind of thing I would love to be involved in. Alas, I'm just an artist.

http://www.graphicsmash.com/comics/johnnysaturn.php

joeymanley wrote:What I mean

grantcthomas's picture

[quote=joeymanley]What I mean is the ability of a cartoonist to easily pick up his/her webcomic archive, and move it from one automation system to another, or even just to store it on his/her own hard drive for backup purposes. Webcomics automation systems need to be able to spit out their entire archives, to the owner of the material, on demand, and in a format that allows for immediate upload to another system or restoration on the current system, no questions asked.[/quote]

I touched on this issue a bit in my "test drive" article on WCN Free accounts. It took me about 4 hours to switchthe archives of My Life in Records over and I still haven't really tackled the Graphic Poems archives.

Keep up the good work.

http://www.grantthomasonline.com

------------------------------------------http://www.grantthomasonline.com