Why make Webcomics?
Submitted by Thatguy on February 28, 2006 - 23:55
I'm doing a formal paper on Webcomics for a senior Folk Art course and I need some opinions, concepts, quotes, examples from YOU, the expert on the subject. So, if you're feeling helpful, I've got a few specific questions - or if you're VERY interested, you can eMail me at <willl59@yahoo.com>.
1) Why make webcomics?
2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?)
3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community?
4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together?
5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions?
6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain.
Feel free to add any tangents, examples, images, links, etc. THANKS!




Re: Why make Webcomics?
by The William G - 03/01/2006 - 00:38
Because I started drawing comics when I was a kid. Back when they held some sort of societal value. And I never broke the habit.
Since comics are pointless without having someone read them, the web offered the easiest and cheapest solution.
No. There is no "community". There are cliques, pools of interest, gangs, and pseudo religions. All due to the intesne niche focus of most webcomics. I feel no connection to most all of them.
That's not to say I don't like a whole lot of the people I've conversed with due to a shared interest in webcomics. But I've never felt part of any gang. Everyone has their focus.
Do you mean "Do the artists pander to their niche, creating a feedback loop?" then the answer is yes.
But if you mean that people outside of our little cliques paint webcomics all with the same sort of 'barely-readable-so-it's-good-they're-free' brush... The answer is also, yes. I've asked around. This is pretty much the attitude I've found.
It's the quickest and best way to get a gang of people around you to help you attack other people you disagree with. As well as being the best way to reassure yourself and others that your pet obsessions are valid. This is just a reflection of the sea of fandom that webcomics exists in. Everything you see in webcomics can be found in any fanclub or con on the planet. Be it self-interest or drama.
I'd say 99.999% of webcomickers are following the methods they see in print. Partially because they lack the skills to branch out, but mostly because they lack the motivation to improve themselves. Why improve when everyone who emails you tells you you're great?
Those that do try to either improve or expand their toolset tend to be attacked for it by their fellow cartoonists. Being called pretentious or what have you. There are attempts to make comics fit the method of delivery such as the Tarquin Engine, but they get such trouble for it that the creators tend to stop trying after a while. In which case, these unique traditions might as well not exist.
I see these differences as meaningless. Art is art. The only difference in these two concepts is how much people are paying.
I posted this in your
by Shishio - 03/01/2006 - 01:25
I posted this in your thread on Comic Genesis, but I'll post here as well, in case some of the people here don't go to those forums, and would care to know my thoughts on the matter.
One-liners - New strips on Fridays.
Re: Why make Webcomics?
by bobweiner - 03/01/2006 - 06:59
My answers are below: 1) Why make webcomics? Because of the sheer enjoyment of being able to share my cartooning interests with people around the world. 2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?) I don't feel connected to the webcomic community. I feel like I come across as an outsider who's ignored for the most part. It took me a while to get over that, but in the end, I don't feel as bad as I did before. That said, I would LIKE to feel connected to the webcomic community, but I'm not holding my breath. 3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community? Yes. Many cliques within the community have already been formed. In many ways, I feel like it's like high school all over again. Perhaps that's why I haven't been as concerned with "fitting in". There are exceptions to this of course, but for the most part, this is what I've found. 4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together? Places like Comixpedia are nice - it's really the only sembelance of community where I feel like, as a creator, I can contribute. Webcomics, in the past, have also been very good about raising awareness (and money) to help relief efforts (i.e. Blank Label's stellar efforts in fund raising during Hurricane Katrina). Something that I feel was organized extremely well given how fast things had to come together. 5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions? I can't speak for others - but for me, my only tradition is to try to keep publishing on a somewhat regular basis despite what life throws at me. Oh, and every October 21st is the annual PC Weenies Day (mark your calendars!). 6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain. "folk" art. Anybody can create a 'web comic'. The vast majority of webcomics out there are done at a grass roots level - simply for the love of the medium. The webcomic scene is much like a huge flea market, with a bunch of really small vendors vying for your attention. There are a few 'pros' there, but those represent < 2% of the whole webcomic scene. Feel free to add any tangents, examples, images, links, etc. THANKS! I better quit now. :) -Krishna
Krishna M. Sadasivam Cartoonist, "The PC Weenies" http://www.pcweenies.net
Re: Why make Webcomics?
by rezo - 03/01/2006 - 08:58
1) Why make webcomics?
Comics are one the simplest means for me to tell stories while satisfying my interests as an artist. Putting them online is not expensive.
2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?)
Not really! I think that's the norm though? The community is huge and everyone has their own group of people they're comfortable with...which they don't regard as the whole. However, although I said "Not really!" I have participated in webcomic events:Secret Santa, May Day, signed up for Blind Date but the person I was matched with couldn't contribute, won a comicing tournament, endurance comic shenanigans, made a few guest comics, have posted on various boards for years and joined in on the popular debates from time to time. So... and I guess it's weird to say this about myself, but despite not really feeling connected to the community, I am. Not in the same way I am with the few people I get on well with, but in the sense of participating in/contributing to and just generally taking an interest in things related to webcomics.
3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community?
It would be funny if they did not!
4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together?
William G's answer fits. There are the groups formed, the events, the fact the people are working towards common goals. However, it's largely about the sharing of ideas. For instance, although he can lambast fanboys and creators that view certain attitudes as pretentious or whatnot, there are also other people out there espousing the same ideas. Since they agree with each other, a group is formed at least in regards to ideology and their views are used to attack those who disagree with them... and those people attacked respond in kind. The debate spreads to other people interested in webcomics who take sides or conciously abstain(which is quite different than not being aware of something altogether). This happens all of the time - sprite comics,gamer comics, manga, infinite canvas, pretentious art-whorery. If you're fine with looking at the community being "brought together" as a constant clash of ideas that keeps people connected in some form, then that's the main thing. When there's less disagreeance on something, then you find all of these people working towards a similar goal - the fundraising is one such example;
5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions?
I don't know what I would consider unique to webcomics. The various things webcomics aspire towards were done well before webcomics became common. The infinite canvas and innovations of digital storytelling were advanced by game designers of digital comics and the like as early as the 80s to my knowledge. The scrolling panels, light animation, branching paths, interactivity. They weren't the exact same as what webcomics are doing , of course, but the concepts are very similar and what they did do was explored more completely. To be clear, many of the "games" are nothing more than stories that you click through, with panels changing to reflect the action. There is little ambiguity in the similarities and influences of comic storytelling on them.So I have very little interest in what is being done in webcomics as far as novelty is concerned. Which is to say, I will enjoy those comics for reasons that have nothing to do with their novelty. Even if something has been done before, it can still be used in an interesting way in the future and most of what we enjoy does exactly that. But as the trailblazers of a new artform, I don't give anyone any particularly special credit. Though surely something worth it is out there. I don't do much looking!
I do all of my work away from a computer, so for me the "web" in webcomic is just a means of presenting it.
6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain.
I'm not particularly interested in the distinctions, but if you want to be technical, since it's such a general question, the answer is "both". It should be up to you to find which comics apply to which group.
<a xhref="http://www.kiwisbybeat.com" target=blank>Kiwis by beat!</a>
Re: Why make Webcomics?
by Aleph - 03/01/2006 - 10:36
1) Why make webcomics?
Personally, because it's the best way to tell my story, in a way that will keep me telling it all the way to the end. I have eventual money goals too but I'm not exactly holding my breath.
I think some people make webcomics for the instant feedback, versus working on print submissions that take more endurance and more confidence. Some people make webcomics because nobody can stop them :-p Or because they don't want to commit to comics as anything more than a hobby. Others make them for attention. Some make them so they can pretend to be celebrities. >.>
2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?)
Not at all. I don't actually think there is a webcomic community. The things that have called themselves 'the webcomic community' have completely ignored 90 percent of the actual people IN webcomics. When most of the people IN the community feel utterly ignored and invalidated, it's not much of a community. More of a demographic with some people speaking for it as if their little slice represents the entire.
3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community?
This question is confusing in its wording. I mean, the way I read it, you're asking, does what we do as webcomic artists reflect upon the comixpedia community? Yeah, peoples' work reflects on the groups formed by those people. I don't see how the work of artists with no contact with comixpedia could reflect on it though.
4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together?
Depends on what you mean by community. The most inclusive unifying force in webcomics is inter-comic-drama, it's the primary means of interacting with each other for the widest array of people.
There is also a cliquey little system by which some mini communities describe themselves as the entirety of the webcomics community. Crossovers, etc, form the meat of that. Acknowledgement has become a really high-value commodity in webcomics, and even moreso in the cliques, but it comes at a price, because fans that are influenced by that kind of inclusion come with baggage and demands that you adhere more or less to the expectations formed by the clique. McCloudites and the PA/PVP/etc crowd, the furries, the manga-otaku, etc etc etc.
Honestly though, I don't think there's enough community to bring together for most things. I think the closest thing we have to a community is a bunch of people who burst onto the scene frantically trying to get noticed, and a bunch more people who've grown up and quit caring about the opinions of other creators (or are faking it for their sanity's sake) because they see their fates as comic artists are not significantly affected.
Then again though, I see some of this particular group of people-- who I'd consider more the comixpedia community than the webcomics community-- as a good community to know. I stayed completely off the radar of all these communities until I had a real problem I needed help dealing with, and some really great individuals stepped up and helped me out (and it's been mostly successful, too) That makes me feel invested in this particular group and interested in participating. I've seen a lot of people treat each other helpfully and inclusively, which makes the comixpedia community more valid in my mind than the 'webcomics community'. That is an amorphous myth which seems to consist of a few people who see each other as the whole world of webcomics and don't even bother acknowledging that anybody they're not personally aware of might matter. And honestly, if they got more involved in this particular community, they'd spoil all its good points with that behaviour.
So maybe we should be grateful that more of the webcomics community is NOT drawn together.
5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions?
Webcomics generally split into those drawing for eventual print publishing, and those trying to innovate with the medium.
Most comics drawing to print eventually draw on the established techniques of their genre, be it manga, marvellish lineart, newspaper cartooning or ripping off Ben Edlund. (dig! :-p) Unlike a lot of print comics, webcomics can also tend toward emulation of animators. Most affordable printing methods can't support the kind of bright colour work that makes animation styles work well, less attention is paid to the negative space and the lineart is used more as a framework for the colourful shapes than as the meat of the artwork. Those doing this hit a snag when they do try to go to print, however, when they meet up with the realities of print publishing and the cost involved in making their work look good.
Comics trying to innovate generally tend to follow styles like Patrick Farley's or Scott McCloud's. There are a myriad of exceptions, but most blazingly "different" strips fall in step with one or other other, and don't even really capture the concepts.
As for their own traditions: When you see someone advertising 'infinite canvas' what you're really in for is usually a sidescrolling or arrow-driven montage of pages that would have been just fine on their own, but that's definitely unique to webcomics. People like Farley do it better, the frames are integrated and flow into each other in a way that ONLY works in his scroll method, but few people actually do that. The new animation-driven navigation is a little closer to 'infinite' I guess, and that's unique to webcomics. There is also 3D modelling into still frames, which I believe is unique to webcomics. Sprite comics aren't entirely unique to webcomics, they made some brief appearances in little viral animations before webcomics were a thing, but they weren't animated so much as a series of stills with bubbles. They are popularized by webcomics though. Photography with text as a comic, I used to think was unique to webcomics, but apparently it's not because it's in a visual communication textbook I picked up to learn more about making covers ^^; I think some of the extremely simplified methods, like Boy on a Stick and Slither, White Ninja Comics, and Dinosaur Comics, are unique to webcomics, but then again you have to try to figure out where the line between webcomic and not webcomic actually lies, because stickdeath.com with its animated violence vs. stickmen grandaddies them all, starting in early 1999 with very simple rudimentary gif animations.
6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain.
High art or folk art does not depend on the medium. It depends on the person doing the work. If somebody goes out and learns a discipline, and applies that discipline in a striking and insightful way, they make high art. I wouldn't really be able to point to a single example of this in webcomics today that really shatters preconceptions and makes something that elevates it all to 'high art', but Electric Sheep comes closest, you can tell the work is emotionally significant to the creator and catalogue represents years of self-education in digital art.
You can use oil paints to create a Rembrandt, or unicorns frolicking with Rainbow Brite, or Elvis in the nude with a peanut butter sandwich, or an ad for Absolut vodka. It's not the method, it's the person applying it, that makes the difference.
Personally I just want to make beautiful images, I'm really not concerned with getting to 'High art'. I know there's a contingent in webcomics, though, that really wants to get there.
Re: Why make Webcomics?
by spargs - 03/01/2006 - 10:37
1) Why make webcomics? Because of an extreme need to force your artistic exploits onto other people and a vague hope of becoming the next Penny Arcade.2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?) Yes I do, but not in an extremely strong way. The problem with a forum-based community such as Comixpedia is that there is no immediate or highly gauguable feedback from other people. You can post something really insightful or amusing and people can read it and think "yeah, right on" or be highly amused and then not post anything in return. All subtlety of how your thoughts affect people is usually lost - and you can seem to be talking to thin air most times. Read other people's posts and you realise this happens to everyone on the board.3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community?Very often webcomics reference the webcomics community and parody it's thirst for "teh drama". As a general rule I've tried to keep webcomic community references out of my webcomics to avoid writing for a select "in-crowd" that a casual webcomic reader will have no hope understanding. 4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together? We all like to bitch about people more successful than us. 5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions? The medium is still quite new, but you can see the influence of key webcomic artists and writers on the rest of the webcomic world. At the moment webcomic artist cobble together inspiration from many sources, web, print, animated, eastern, western ... it's a hodge podge. The only common themes throughout webcomics are blambot fonts, creator-centric narrative and adobe photoshop. 6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain. Folk art. Not unlike soylent green, webcomics IS people. Feel free to add any tangents, examples, images, links, etc. THANKS! Yay! That means I'm free to do this!
[url=http://www.digi-comic.com][img]http://www.digi-comic.com/images/dcLilLink.gif[/img][/url]
You might find some helpful
by Greg Carter - 03/01/2006 - 11:50
You might find some helpful tidbits in Warren Ellis' Ministry column at The Beat. Such as, "...many hundreds of people are growing the future of comics right in front of you, for free. So stop being a dick about webcomics." That's the best quote I've seen about webcomics yet. I kinda object to the whole line of questioning as being so broad as to be unanswerable. The label "webcomic" has come to mean the medium, not a genre. It's too broad a term to have any other meaning. But I'll have a go because my ego demands it. Quote:1) Why make webcomics? I make a comic because I have a story I want to tell and people seem to like it. The web is the main distribution point because it's cheaper. I also self-publish in print. Quote:2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?)There are lots of webcomic communities and I've felt welcome in all that I've visited. But I don't feel connected because I don't spend enough time in any of them. Quote:3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community? They are fan communities, either of specific comics, genres of comics, or the form itself. The medium is the message. Quote:4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together?They are the focus of the communities. It is a symbiotic relationship. ALthough William G has a better take on describing the whole "community" thing. Quote:5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions? The traditions of graphic storytelling. Again, webcomic describes the medium, but there are comics that take specific advantage of that medium. But no real traditions that I know of. Quote:6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain. Too broad to answer in any way except "depends on the specific comic". Paintings on canvas: "High" art or "Folk" art? Too broad. But I think the largest portion of webcomics fall into the folk art realm.
Greg Carter - Abandon: First Vampire - Online Graphic Novel
Thanks everyone for the
by Thatguy - 03/01/2006 - 19:04
Thanks everyone for the fantastic feedback so far! I'll address one recurring point:
TWG didn't miss your
by Aleph - 03/01/2006 - 20:52
TWG didn't miss your meaning, though. That folkloric meaning is described exactly by the quote. Gallery art versus folk art is, as he said, determined by how much people are paying. Van Gogh, while he was alive, was less than folk art, he couldn't GIVE it away, and now he's 2 mil a pop minimum.I find the meaning you're using absolutely meaningless and totally relative. I would consider using the 'high art' label the way it is applied to fine arts that aspire to lasting significance and a place in art history, the high-minded goals riding the opposite side of the spectrum from the dogs playing poker and sailboats hanging in motels.
Re: Why make Webcomics?
by rabbitpie - 03/02/2006 - 02:02
Hooray! It's like a LiveJournal Survey!
1) Why make webcomics?
As TWG said, the web part is because it's the easiest way to obtain an audience.
As for the comics part, it is because it is one of the most accessible forms of art over the web. Most people do not have the attention span to read anything more complicated than a webcomic on the web---for entertainment purposes. Reading large amounts of text on a monitor is straining on the reader, so text-based narrative is out. Full or even partial-motion video/animations are bandwidth intensive and take a long time to make---though Flash is making this more accessible now. So the best way to tell a story online is through something that's in between images and text. Hence, comics.
2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?)
No, I tend to find that keeping up with life AND updating constently already kills most of my time.
3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community?
What does this mean? If by "this community" you mean Comixpedia, then yes, it does, because the whole point of all of us (except, maybe, Kiba) are here is because we make webcomics.
4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together?
It feels like you are asking these questions by essentially taking a list of "default" interview questions and replacing a NOUN with webcomics. "In what ways do rock music bring the community together?", say, or "In what ways do weekly swing dances bring the community together?". The problem is, some of these questions do not work on webcomics---like this one. Without webcomics, there would be no webcomic community---or no webcomic fans or webcomic reviews communities. So webcomics bring them together trivially: without them there won't BE any community. Maybe you can ask how webcomics bring, say, the population of a forum (say, Something Awful) together. Well, then webcomics provide an easy medium for them to communicate to each other, and gives them something to talk about. But that also applies to things like blog posts or news articles or funny pictures of bears mauling a man.
I do not mean any offense here. I'm just trying to point out that some of these questions don't make too much sense, because webcomics are weird. And I do not know how to post better questions myself. But then again, you are writing this precisely because webcomics are weird and you want the challenge of writing an academic paper on something that defies traditional boundaries, as opposed to just "duuuuude, I'm writing a paper on comics, on teh Intarweb!", right?
5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions?
Why do I have the urge to yell out "INFINITE CANVAS" here?
6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain.
Aleph, I believe, answered this as well as it could be. I will attempt to add a bit more:
Some people say that I do "high art", because of my writing style and my choice of topics; others thing I do "folk art", because of my simple art.
Similarly, though I wear clothing that I got from the thrift store, all of which can be described as "folk" fashion, a fashion designer once told me that she considers my usual attair as "high fashion", because of the way I combined these individually "folk" pieces and my attitute.
It's not the medium, the method, the tools, or even the artist. It's the interpretation.
Read Seventh Draft!
"Thatguy" wrote: It IS a
by Greg Carter - 03/02/2006 - 10:40
Greg Carter - Abandon: First Vampire - Online Graphic Novel
This question of High art or
by captain - 03/02/2006 - 13:44
This question of High art or Folk art is interesting to me....since no one has hit on the fact that the public and most of the art world view all comics art as trash.....whether it was Blondie, or the great Flash Gordon - this is a long standing tradition that is slowly being changed over the past years. Up until the last couple of upcoming generations - starting with the baby boomers has comic art been actually seen as art. Most of the great art in comics from the past was just destroyed at the syndicates after it was used. So it is interesting to hear this High art / Folk art thing.
Re: Why make Webcomics?
by Tim Demeter - 03/02/2006 - 14:32
1) Why make webcomics?
I love making comics, and love getting them out there, but don't like spending a fortune in doing so. If you're doing an indy book, I honestly feel that the web is your only option. The direct market is making it impossible to do a printed comic without Spider-Man or Superman in it.
2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?)
I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I admit, I'm more dialed into the Modern Tales community, being a contributor there, but I'm trying to get out and get more active elsewhere too.
3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community?
Not too much, no. There's so much diversity in webcomics, it's tough to put a label on it, though the big players do define us a bit.
4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together?
Forums such as this, tag boards and other such immediate feedback options make the experience a lot more interactive for creator and reader alike. Fans of a webcomic can become a community unto themselves.
5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions?
By virtue of the delivery, there's plenty of unique traditions, both artistically and business-wise. While digital tools are used to color comic books, webcomics creators tend to be more computer savvy and push those boundaries a little further.
6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain.
I consider my comic folk art, and have interest in the distinction of 'fine art.' I'd rather be entertained then enlightened any day of the week. But that's me, you could make an argument some web comics are high art I'm sure.
Tim Demeter
does a bunch of neato stuff.
Clickwheel
GraphicSmash
Bustout Odds
Re: Why make Webcomics?
by Fabricari - 03/02/2006 - 19:04
1) Why make webcomics?Two favorite passtimes in one: the web and comics. 2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?) Sure. Part of it. This is a community right here. 3 or 4 thousand people is still small enough to consider a community. Print comic book artists consider themselves part of a community, but instead of forums, they used to/still do hang out at conventions. It's a good thing. Especially in a world where we seldom speak to our own neigbors. 3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community?I don't think anything beyond simply making a webcomic qualifies you as a member of the community. Although recently writing about webcomics seems to be a big qualifier as well. 4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together? Yeah, this is kind of a redundant question. It's a webcomic community. 5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions? Conventions have cropped up for site design. 6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain. Folk. Like it was mentioned earlier, most of us do it for the love. Also, most of us are untrained artists - isn't that one definition of folk art?
Steve "Fabricari" Harrison
Re: Why make Webcomics?
by jdalton - 03/02/2006 - 21:28
Others have answered better than I ever could for the state of webcomics as a whole, so I will only answer for myself.
1) Why make webcomics?
Because I can't stop making comics- it's like some horrible mental illness- but so far I haven't been able to start publishing them in print (mostly).
2) Do you feel connected to a webcomic community? (why/why not?)
Yes. The only people I know who share my interest/obsession in comics are people I've never met in real life. The internet, as ephemeral as it is, is the only artistic community I've got.
3) Do webcomics reflect in some way upon this community?
Mine doesn't really. I had this idea before discovering webcomics.
4) In what ways do webcomics bring the community together?
I'm not interested in online communities about fishing or knitting. Just comics.
5) What traditions do authors draw upon, and have webcomics developed any of their own, unique traditions?
Nearly all of my inspiration comes from offline.
6) Webcomics: "High" art or "Folk" art? Explain.
I studied High Art and didn't care for it. It lives in the temple of the White Box and is only worshipped by the true believers. After Cezanne most people stopped understanding High Art and stopped caring. People are finally starting to accept Picasso's art as meaningful, but I doubt they'll ever accept Marcel Duchamp. And that's exactly how the High Artists like it.
Give me my Volks-art. The tension between true artistic motivation (the High Art ego trip) and the context of the world around it (money and entertaining your audience) is the best thing about art. Michelangelo was a folk artist- he got paid to paint nothing but church scenes. Shakespeare was a folk artist- he found endless clever ways of taking his brilliant poetry and pandering it to the cheap seats in the theatre. Hokusai was a folk artist- he sold cheap prints so the middle class could decorate their walls. I want to be a folk artist as well.
Jonathon Dalton
A Mad Tea-Party