What makes a succesful & popular webcomic
Submitted by Rebelsun on April 9, 2004 - 10:18
The succes of WITCH prompts me to ask this: What makes comics like WITCH popular, as in global wide? Is it compelling characters, complex stories, or just some good advertising?
What is about popular comics that appeal a lot of their readers?
- Fred Gallagher
- Jennie Breeden
- Jerry Holkins
- Joey Manley
- John Allison
- Mike Krahulik
- Pete Abrams
- Scott Kurtz
- Spike
- T Campbell
- Penny Arcade
- PvP
- User Friendly
- This Olde Haus
- Array
by William Beckerson - 04/13/2004 - 12:45
[quote:1e0d45ed43="xerexes"]And of course - advertise on Comixpedia! :)
Good idea!
Please click on my sig for I am serializing It's About Girls #8 in with a mind-blowing three panels per day every Monday and Thursday because I feel I can manage my time better this way as well it insures that I don't post anymore of them silly R3 comics of mine while I'm between chapters. This is a project that will continue as long as I'm still capable of doing so. Aren't you glad you read this important and well written advertisement right here on Comixpedia?
WELL?!
And now, I shall be successful, thanks to xerexes' timely reminder.
... Anyway, I'm still saying that it's the right product at the right time that makes success.
by JohnPorter_316 - 04/13/2004 - 15:33
[quote:a27c5282dc="xerexes"]I don't even know where to reply to this thread - it's brilliant! Like the sun I tell you.
Agreed - and it's not just the discussion, but also the various links to other pages/threads on webcomic promotion that I've found interesting. Hopefully this thread will run and run.
I've done it before and I imagine I'll do it again in the future, it's a pretty cost-effective way of promoting your work.
FWIW, I've always preferred taking out banner ads to posting 'read my comic!' threads on forums. That just makes me feel dirty. I've known people who pimp their stuff mercilessly at every opportunity, in every other post... I just can't do it. Maybe I feel like it'd be compromising my integrity, maybe I just don't have the confidence in my work to go in for the hard-sell promotional tactics. But, y'know, all of the people I know who persist with that sort of promotion seem to be doing a lot better than I am, so what do I know? :?
by William Beckerson - 04/13/2004 - 22:09
[quote:6122de096e="JohnPorter_316"]FWIW, I've always preferred taking out banner ads to posting 'read my comic!' threads on forums. That just makes me feel dirty.
But getting dirty can be so damned sexy. Anyone who agrees with me, let me hear you say, "Hell Yeah!"
by Michael_Harker - 04/13/2004 - 22:53
[quote:e6a881c885="William_Beckerson"][quote:e6a881c885="JohnPorter_316"]FWIW, I've always preferred taking out banner ads to posting 'read my comic!' threads on forums. That just makes me feel dirty.
But getting dirty can be so damned sexy. Anyone who agrees with me, let me hear you say, "Hell Yeah!"
Hell Yeah!
Read my comic! http://www.dinosaurislandpress.com
Hey, if webcomicers can't shamelessly promote themselves and beg for advice here then....
...the world is very sad I guess.
by Anonymous - 04/13/2004 - 23:00
ALSO, it is useful to sign in before posting so people know what your comic is.
by Joey Manley - 04/14/2004 - 11:16
As Ghastly said above, the best way to promote your webcomic on public forums is to participate meaningfully, over time, to interesting conversations. If you seem like somebody who is smart, informed, funny, whatever, people who read the forum will click the link to your comic in your .sig file, even if the post itself was about something completely different.
Shameless hype, on boards that allow it (like this one), where you know you're not going to piss off the locals, can be useful too. Traffic generated by hype threads tends to be less "sticky" than traffic generated the other way. Same is true of advertising.
Joey
www.moderntales.com
by Al Schroeder - 04/14/2004 - 11:24
[quote:d6f189ed25="Justin-Pie"]ALSO, it is useful to sign in before posting so people know what your comic is.
Details, details.---Al
Al Schroeder III of MINDMISTRESS---think the superhero genre is mined out? Think there are no new superhero ideas? Think again.
by William Beckerson - 04/14/2004 - 23:58
[quote:6ef5d812ae="joeymanley"]somebody who is smart, informed, funny,
My ears are burning~
:wink:
by Dutch! - 09/29/2004 - 01:25
What makes a successful and popular webcomic? One word...AUDIENCE...
Not that I've worked out how to get said audience...that's another matter. Going back quickly to the topic of 'luck' previously, a quote I often think of is that luck is the residue of design. Yep, you can be lucky, but you're more lucky if you've planned your work properly in the first place.
I agree more with what most others have been stating, that a good way to promote without really promoting is to participate meaningfully in boards such as this. People will click on links or so forth if they like what they see and perhaps follow along.
Let's face it...if this post earns me one new returning reader, then it's more than done it's job, eh?
School Spirit
BuzzComix et al
by stingpin - 12/24/2004 - 03:08
Howdy, I'm new here. Found this forum when I was searching for info on doing Web comics and mini comics. I've been doing a Web comic for nearly two years now -- my traffic is the pits, but I'm enjoying it anyway.
Perhaps the reason that the advertising I've done (not a lot but some--banner on BuzzComix) hasn't been effective is that my drawing puts people off?? Not sure. I'm more of a writer than an artist, although I know my drawing has improved somewhat, thanks to help from an artist friend.
I used to draw comics as a hobby in the late '70s/early '80s. Then I started college, and didn't have much time to do it anymore. Worked on it some in 1988-89, then I came to Japan and did nothing for over ten years.
The story on my Web site (www.globalcomics.net/haggy) doesn't include the early chapters from jr. high and high school, because I don't have them here in Japan and my brother can't find time to scan them for me (too nervous about the idea of sending those irreplaceable works through the mail!).
Someone asked here back in April about others' opinions on sites like BuzzComix, but I didn't see any responses. My feeling has been that, while being on those sites is better than not being on them, in terms of visibility, but it doesn't make that much difference. On onlinecomics.net, two people have added me to my favorites. That's two more than I would have expected, given that I'm thrown in with hundreds of other titles, but still, only two. And who knows if those two people have ever gone back to their favorites and viewed my site again!!
Getting back to my comic, what does anyone else think? Does the art dissuade you from attempting to get into the story?
RE: BuzzComix et al
by Xaviar Xerexes - 12/24/2004 - 10:54
Tim
Maybe this is off-topic a bit but I saw some good essays on your site - if you'd have any interest in writing about webcomics give me an email - xerexes AT comixpedia DOT com.
I run this place! Tip the piano player on the way out.
RE: BuzzComix et al
by Xaviar Xerexes - 12/24/2004 - 10:56
And as for art preventing getting into a comic. It absolutely can, depending on the type of story to be told. The art has to match the story in subject, tone and style. If the writing is of a type that requires realistic or more polished artwork and it's matched with cartoonish or simplistic work than that's going to be an issue for a reader.
It's the same thing with a mismatch between art and writing though. If the writing can't keep up with the art that's also going to keep the reader from completely buying into the world and story of the comic.
I run this place! Tip the piano player on the way out.
RE: BuzzComix et al
by stingpin - 12/25/2004 - 03:52
I'm sure it can, but I was wondering about in the case of my own comic in particular.
Re: RE: BuzzComix et al
by Anonymous - 12/25/2004 - 06:03
[quote:67c6dddbec="stingpin"]I'm sure it can, but I was wondering about in the case of my own comic in particular.
To be honest: yes.
RE: Re: RE: BuzzComix et al
by stingpin - 12/27/2004 - 00:50
Well, I asked for it!
Can you elaborate a bit?
In my own defense, I can say there do seem to be those who don't find my art distracting. I'm taking a rather informal comics art class from an artist who's been published by Dark Horse, and his attitude about my drawing is "It is what it is" and that it matches the type of story I'm trying to do, just like the crappy animation of South Park fits with the kind of show that is; that wouldn't work as well if done in Disney-style animation, and mine would be kinda weird if drawn by John Romita Jr.
At the same time, my "teacher" has helped me improve. If you don't believe it could have been worse than now, just look at the site archives!!
Do you think my art makes it hard to tell what's going on? Or is it simply a neatness issue? An issue of it being glaringly obvious that I've never had any formal training? An issue that would bug cartoonists more than it would the average reader?
by KrazyKrow - 01/05/2005 - 23:35
Advertising is the key for a new comic starting up. Take Chris Crosby's new comic, Sore Thumbs. Pretty much every review I've seen of it (including one on Comixpedia) has been scathing. But thanks to the awesome advertising muscle of Keenspot, he's managed to find 10,000 regular readers.
by Uncle Ghastly - 01/06/2005 - 00:17
Not only did Chris have the advertising muscle of Keenspot behind Sore Thumbs but he also advertised it on other webcomics too.
Never underestimate the power of advertising on a popular webcomic. :wink:
by Anonymous - 01/06/2005 - 01:45
This is just an opinion from a reader, but the quickest way to lose me is to set a schedule for updates and blow it.
I have a list of comics I visit monday, another list I visit tuesday, a third list I visit wednesday, etc. Lots of comics are on more than one list, depending on how often they update. About the second time I go to a comic that promised an update on a particular day, and they didn't do it, I dump them or move them to a slower schedule. That may mean I miss strips if they start updating on time, but I'd rather miss strips than go where I expected something new and not find it. I can't really explain the feeling: It's not that I feel entitled, really, but I feel annoyed or cheated if someone demanded my attention by making a promise, and then takes my attention and doesn't come through on their promise.
When you change the schedule, announce it. Don't change the schedule more often than once a month.
Ghastly updates once a week. I read it every sunday. It always updates, so I'm always happy when I go there. Devil's panties updates according to no particular schedule; I visit there three times a week, and probably miss a quarter to a half of the comics. FLEM used to be great but I haven't been there for months because the updates got too irregular.
by Tintin - 01/06/2005 - 02:15
[quote:1e7ccea5f6="TheDeeMan"] I don't know how comics that update a page a week can hold an audience. Especially since there's so much out there to choose from that may be updating more frequently. If your lucky enough to find an audience you've got to give them what they want--Your comic on a regular basis. If not, someone else will.
Dee
Sigh. Updating more than once a week is just not feasible for me, so I'll have to be satisfied with being middle-tier in terms of popularity (not to mention that most of my comics are on a subcription site, http://Girlamatic.com. But seriously, how many comics out there are going to even approach PvP-level populatiry? So far, I've noticed that most popular comics are a) gag strips that upadte daily, b) gaming strips, c) anime-related. If your comic resembles none of these, be content with an enthusiastic but not-necessarily ravenous or merchandise- hungry following (in most cases). You will, at most, have a small but dedicated niche audience.
But then, is this so bad? Is the number of hits to one's comic the only benchpost of success?
by Chris Crosby - 01/06/2005 - 06:05
[quote:eaf1cf3a7f="KrazyKrow"]Advertising is the key for a new comic starting up. Take Chris Crosby's new comic, Sore Thumbs. Pretty much every review I've seen of it (including one on Comixpedia) has been scathing. But thanks to the awesome advertising muscle of Keenspot, he's managed to find 10,000 regular readers.
As much as I'd like to say that Keenspot can make any comic popular no matter how bad (or SCATHINGLY bad), I can't. While Keenspot can introduce a large number of readers to new comics, it's nigh impossible to get any of those readers to CONTINUE reading a comic regularly if they are not at least somewhat entertained by said comic.
A lot of movies get scathing reviews but make big box office, because the masses think they're A-OK in spite of the critics. Look at GARFIELD: THE MOVIE. Only 13% of critics had anything good to say about it, and it made $195 million at the box office.
Look for SORE THUMBS: THE MOTION PICTURE at a theater near you Summer 2006.
by Anonymous - 01/06/2005 - 10:00
Well, if you have Cecania walking around without anything on, would it attract more readers?
by KrazyKrow - 01/06/2005 - 11:52
Hi Chris! I agree with that completely.
I would say that total number of comic readers, A, is equal to the number of people who have been exposed to the comic, B, multiplied by the likelihood of a person to like the comic, C.
Thus, A = B * C.
So at the extremes, a comic with banner ads on the entire internet (B= 10^99) but sucks so horribly that almost no one likes it (C = 10^-99) will only have one reader.
The same goes for the comic that is so mind-bendingly awesome that everyone who merely glimpses at it will continue to read it unblinkingly until their eyeballs dry out but only a handful of people know about it. It won't have high readership.
I really beleive most webcomics could benefit from paid advertising, especially ones with niche appeal like a political anime gamer comic. Now Chris, I would really love Sore Thumbs if you could just turn it into a political anime gamer furry comic.
by Anonymous - 01/06/2005 - 18:16
[quote:b762f78eaa="Anonymous"]Well, if you have Cecania walking around without anything on, would it attract more readers?
Probably, but even I am not THAT shameless.
[quote:b762f78eaa="KrazyKrow"]I really beleive most webcomics could benefit from paid advertising, especially ones with niche appeal like a political anime gamer comic.
I agree! Especially if you advertise it on Keenspot. Our rates are very reasonable.
Coleman the Bear is furry. So there you go.
by Anonymous - 01/06/2005 - 18:19
That was me (Chris Crosby) above, by the way.
Comixpedia has the worst log-in remembering machine in HISTORY.
by BoLindbergh - 01/06/2005 - 18:28
[quote:d74235207a="Anonymous"]Comixpedia has the worst log-in remembering machine in HISTORY.
Untrue. TypeKey is worse.
by Erik Melander - 01/06/2005 - 18:42
I suppose it's hard to argue that paid advertising would not be beneficial in any way to most webcomics. I do believe, however, that it wouldn't be worth the price for most. Unless you have the quality and, usually, the stamina too keep a pretty high update schedule it would be difficult to keep many the visitors coming back. And it is also much more beneficial to get a link from an established comic creator than to pay for an advertisement.
by Chris Crosby - 01/06/2005 - 22:26
[quote:a5383d53fe="BoLindbergh"][quote:a5383d53fe="Anonymous"]Comixpedia has the worst log-in remembering machine in HISTORY.
Untrue. TypeKey is worse.
I stand corrected. I have to switch over to Netscape just to post anything with TypeKey.
Your Pal (but not TypeKey's),
Chris Crosby
by Anonymous - 01/07/2005 - 02:42
Not as shameless as European comics? They have nude people in them, and they sell more books there. Also, Ewan MacGregor, he's very pround of his *Scottage* that any censors who edit that will get pwned!
by Chris Crosby - 01/07/2005 - 02:46
Ohhhh, no. I've fallen for that "European comics do it, you should too!" trick far too many times.
Can't get fooled again.
by KrazyKrow - 01/07/2005 - 02:51
European comics don't shave their armpits. Do you really want to read a comic with hairy armpits?
by Uncle Ghastly - 01/07/2005 - 03:03
Japanese comics shave EVERYTHING!
by Anonymous - 01/07/2005 - 03:53
[quote:90277faf4c="TheDeeMan"]I agree with quality and regular updates.
Honestly? I don't know how comics that update a page a week can hold an audience. Especially since there's so much out there to choose from that may be updating more frequently. If your lucky enough to find an audience you've got to give them what they want--Your comic on a regular basis. If not, someone else will.
Dee
The business of webcomics can be a double-edged sword. midnitecomics.com just launched and all of our creative team is spread across the globe, literally. And they all have their day jobs. We mainly do this on the side and updating daily is just out of the question at this point.
To get the readers you need to update on a regular basis, because readers want what they pay for, wich is reasonable, but you can't devote all of your time to the comic if your not being compensated. So it works like this how can you get the readers if you don't update daily, but how can you update daily if you don't have the readers.
Right now I am doing the websites marketing and I am spending every free moment getting the word out. We have a few writers and a few artists and it seems to be picking up. The key is having a great creative team that is devoted. I don't think there is a holy grail, you just have to work at it. Be persistent and most importantly, you have to love it!
by poinko - 01/07/2005 - 11:53
I think the ingredients needed to be a popular and successful is a pretty short list, but they're all equally important parts:
1. Decent art
There is of course a few exceptions to the rule, like Daily Dinosaur Comics, which uses the same art in every strip, but it's backed up by some great writing.
2. Good scripting
Probably slightly more important than art. Crap art probably won't be able to save a good joke(especially if it's a visually based gag). Of course, there's something to be said about a good drawing being able to pull the weight of a bad joke.
3. Advertising
Probably the most important part about becoming popular. If you have a strip with good art and a decent story/script, it's going to take a long time to get popular if you don't tell anybody. Eventually, people will find it and like it, and they'll tell someone who might like it, who'll tell someone who might like it, etc. Word-of-mouth is probably the most often used advertising when it comes to webcomics, be it e-mail, messageboards, or link sections. But I'd rather have 20 or so people using word-of-mouth by making a topic in a MB or on a toplist, than by having 3 or 4 people do it because I didn't advertise.
4. Regular content
The last, but still important part is having a regular schedule and sticking to it. If you update once every other day, and dont skip any days without filler content or a really good excuse, people will stop going, because there's nothing to see. Don't rely on filler a lot, either. People might go back and check every now and then, but they'll eventually get bored and stop when there's nothing new there, and forget about the comic completely after a while.
I'm still relatively new to the webcomics scene, but I happen to feel that those are the most important factors that decide on how popular a webcomic is. While there's a few comics who are the result of 'right place, right time', none of them became popular for no reason and without any of the ingredients above.
Look at me, talking like I know all about it.. :)
by Tim Tylor - 01/09/2005 - 14:54
I have to hope that weekly-updating comics can hold an audience, otherwise some of the best artists out there are just wasting their time. Comics such as Reman Mythology and Ballad would be impossible to do daily. I imagine they hold their audiences by being good enough for people to remember them and keep coming back. If you've a good friend you get to see about once a week, you don't stop visiting them just because there are other people you meet daily.
by Uncle Ghastly - 01/10/2005 - 00:56
A weekly gag strip can hold an audience, but if your strip is a continuing story it's almost impossible to hold an audience if you update less than 3 times a week. Even story strips that update three times a week I find myself not checking them out more than once a month or so unless they're really very good (like Errant Story).
If your comic only updates once a week you're going to find that it is truly an uphill struggle to make your readership grow. I only update once a week and I had to fight tooth and claw for each and every reader.
I know that a good chunk of my readership only reads my strip once a month simply because they like to read a bunch of the strips together at once.
by Al Schroeder - 01/10/2005 - 10:50
[quote:878eaa7260="Ghastly"]A weekly gag strip can hold an audience, but if your strip is a continuing story it's almost impossible to hold an audience if you update less than 3 times a week. Even story strips that update three times a week I find myself not checking them out more than once a month or so unless they're really very good (like Errant Story).
If your comic only updates once a week you're going to find that it is truly an uphill struggle to make your readership grow. I only update once a week and I had to fight tooth and claw for each and every reader.
I know that a good chunk of my readership only reads my strip once a month simply because they like to read a bunch of the strips together at once.
What Ghastly said. That's why I try to keep to a three-times-a-week schedule on my story strip, which as often as I feel I can do it and maintain the color, which is one of the things I enjoy most about the strip.---Al
Al Schroeder III of MINDMISTRESS---think the superhero genre is mined out? Think there are no new superhero ideas? Think again.
by Scotty Arsenault - 01/10/2005 - 11:03
Damned if I know. Maybe I should beg for money, insult everyone, start drawing with my feet, and say f*** every other word.
by Uncle Ghastly - 01/10/2005 - 11:13
Fuck, you're fucking doing the fucking Newfie swearing? That might be fucking good enough but if you're fucking able to fucking draw with your fucking feet then by fucking god you'll fucking really be fucking bring 'em fucking in, Jimmy.
You know... now that I think about it, there is a gaping absence of Newfie webcomics.
by KrazyKrow - 01/10/2005 - 13:37
You guys are the fuckingest bunch of fucks that ever fucked. Way to fuck it up, fucky.
by Anonymous - 01/10/2005 - 13:54
Hairy armpits in european comics?
Nudity?
Which european comics are you people reading? : p
by KrazyKrow - 01/10/2005 - 14:33
Comics? I thought we were discussing pornography.
by poinko - 01/10/2005 - 16:13
I do believe my eyes are bleeding! :o
by Anonymous - 01/10/2005 - 19:26
You mean your nose.
by poinko - 01/11/2005 - 01:45
Well, SOMETHING on my face is bleeding like some kind of gaping metaphor.
by Rick - 01/11/2005 - 08:35
Hahaha, f-bombs and titties! That's a world-class webcomic idea right there!
...
by Demetric - 01/24/2005 - 03:00
Well reading all that took a bit of time but I’m very glad I did. First let me say I’m a nobody in the world of webcomics I’m not being harsh on myself. I actually mean I’m nobody I don’t even have my site up yet and I’m still working on story details. But I do love the world of webcomics as I know it. And well wouldn’t even be here if not for an anime called Comic Party.
For years I didn’t draw at all and when doing so it took a lot out of me to finish a piece. But watching that anime reminded me why I started drawing. I love to draw and have done it for a long as I can remember. Reading the posts of this thread only helped to further remind me why I draw and why I want to release this comic.
I would love to make money of this someday but well that’s not really important. And even if by some miracle when I release and ppl enjoy my work. If it ever stops being fun then there wont be much point in going on now will there.
Look I’m just going to wrap this up and say thank u all for the posts u made. Not really sure why I checked this thread out but glad nonetheless.
Just MHO but i think more then anything it's given the ppl something they feel is worth reading. Regardless niche, art or story if they readers enjoy it they'll keep coming back. Again just my opinion.
by Stolle - 01/26/2005 - 11:00
Ultra-violence?
by Cayen - 01/27/2005 - 01:38
People shouldn't look at trying to make it with thier first comic, if you can great, however like everything else in life generally that's an oddity.
I've failed to get two comics off the ground, I'm starting on a third. Does this mean I'm a bad artist or writer? Not really however I've learned from my mistakes and my errors and have tried to correct them. This comic has gone a hell of alot further then any other comic I've produced. It's still going to be a long uphill battle. If you stay with it long enough eventually you'll get a readership. If you go long enough you'll even get rocognition from other websites about your comic. So far the only way I've achieved that is by buying advertisement^^. I maybe crazy, but I don't do this for the money, I do it cause if I didn't I would go nuts and draw pinups.
It's a pay as you go world, give it time,be sociable and friendly. Make fun of Fred Gallagher (joking) and eventually the people will come.
by Pepper - 04/08/2005 - 10:58
<quote>People shouldn't look at trying to make it with thier first comic, if you can great, however like everything else in life generally that's an oddity.</quote>
Pretty much true, as far as I can tell. Exodus is my third try. But the reason this one is actually going somewhere (wherever that is) is that I'm enjoying doing it. Sure, update day comes around (twice a week) and sometimes I really aren't in the mood, but I grit my teeth and get on with it and always end up enjoying doing it. I think that means not only will it continue, but I'll keep trying to make it better. Hopefully that's a combination that will result in a decent comic.
by GregUSA - 04/08/2005 - 21:17
no frailty is my third attempt at a webcomic. I've been doing it almost a year and is starting to build audience at a quicker pace lately. It's a story comic that updates once a week on Thursdays. And it has updated every thursday since June 1st, 2004. Even though I'm embarassed at the early attempts at art and story it's still fun to go back and reread the whole thing just to watch the progress. I don't expect this comic to go too far, because I have such a long way to go working on my abilities, but you never know. I'm giving it a push just to see.
One promotional avenue I haven't seen mentioned - conventions. I'm promoting a bit by getting in the Artist Alley at anime and comic conventions. And I try very hard to get on webcomic panels. You get promoted on the cons website and in person. Plus other artists there will sometimes link to you. Plus you can learn a ton of stuff from the people there. I sell mini-comic collections of the strip, plus magnets, t-shirts, etc that I make myself. It's not much compared to the mass that is the internet, but when you have a small audience like mine you can see the bumps after a con. And you can see how many stay. I'm not breaking even at the cons with merchandise but I'm happy with the audience returns I've been getting. And I've learned so much about comics and art in general that it's worth it.
In case you missed it in the first sentence or in my sig: no frailty
Thank you. ;)