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Herzog The Vile

Your reading assignment for Friday morning is a fairly new webcomic - Herzog The Vile.

I haven't been this impressed with a new webcomic discovery in quite awhile.  Creators Stevan Zivadinovic and Daniel Morgan have crafted a simple storyline with a demon lawyer and surrounded it with absolutely stunning and inventive art and layout. (The art reminds one a little of A Lesson Is Learned but just a little) All presented on a website that is well-designed to extend the sense of the comic throughout the site.

Read the strip from the beginning then go check out the letters to Herzog

I hate that.

Erg's picture

It sucks when comics are abandoned and disappeared.

Sadly Herzog didn't last long

Xaviar Xerexes's picture

Not everyone shared my initial enthusiasm but it was still a promising comic. Not sure why they pulled the archives (all that's there right now is a small image saying basically - we'll be back) but it does seem like the creators have given up on Herzog... :(

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Xaviar Xerexes

On second thought, let's not go to Comixpedia. It is a silly place.

I run this place! Tip the piano player on the way out.

Beauty is in the eye of the

Greg Carter's picture

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but this doesn't blow my skirt up. It has possibilites though. Pet peeve - I had to look around to find the link to the actual comic (top left - same size as the other links).

Xerexes, care to expand on why you like it so much? As for the writing I thought it was heavily cliche and overly simplistic, which could be intended - it's too early to tell. And the art was eye candy at best and distracting at worst. Again, this is only the first scene so being over the top is allowable to an extent. I won't even mention the very first bit. Another pet peeve of mine.

Yo, Aleph! If you two are gonna rumble, I'll hold your coat. I'm tired of people getting their panties in a wad because someone doesn't love something as much as they do. The internet is full of people who don't mind discussing things as long as you agree with them 100%. (That's not discussion, that's fawning.) Then it's suddenly an attack on them. You very politely stood your ground with well-reasoned replies. My hat's off to you.

Greg Carter
Abandon
UpDown Studio

Greg Carter - Abandon: First Vampire - Online Graphic Novel

Aww!

Aleph's picture

You're really sweet, thanks :) I get a bit nervous when I'm not sure people understand how I'm coming across, good to know somebody saw I wasn't trying to be aggressive/mean, just speaking my point of view.

I do get really tired of the 'If you don't agree with me 100 percent you're a troll' thing. I don't often agree with people 100 percent, and I don't often see what's so fantastic about the things I'm told are fantastic. I thought I was going to get burnt atta stake for thinking BS was... well, BS. And I still don't get what's so great about Girl Genius.

I just wish people were willing to let go of the idea that everything in webcomics is about personal stuff. I would like it if it were 100 percent NOT personal, if it were just about the work and the way things work or don't. We could really help each other out if we spent more time talking about technique and presentation than we do about who called who fat or who drew who with stink lines and a skunk tail.

Any time you wanna disagree with me, Mr. Carter, you better do it :-D You're going down in my book as a safe person with which to have interesting discussions. Thanks!

Fortunately I learned a long

Greg Carter's picture

Fortunately I learned a long time ago not to take these things personally. It's just not worth it. At first it applied to my job, but I found it worked for everything. Even moreso for creative endeavors. I've gotten emails where people say how much they hate me and wish I would die because they don't like my comic. Those folks are the ones with the problem not me. I don't even take that personally. I tell myself they're just acting out their own issues. (Not sure that has anything to do with what we were talking about, but I just recieved one of those so I mentioned it. Hell, I still get hate mail because I said something nice about Fred Gallagher at an anime convention last September. Get a life people!)

So yes, feel free to disagree with me and I will do the same with you. And I lurrrrve talking about technique and presentation and philosophy of comic making. We have this wonderful blog ability here so we should continue to make use of it. There are lots of other folks here than can seriously discuss these things too. But for now I have to go put stink lines and skunk tails on my entire collection of portraits of webcomic creators.

Greg Carter
Abandon
UpDown Studio

Greg Carter - Abandon: First Vampire - Online Graphic Novel

The comment above was

Xaviar Xerexes's picture

The comment above about civility was intended to be preemptive not a scolding.  I really want Comixpedia to be a place for vigorous but ultimately civil discussion.  So I hope Aleph didn't take it as saying either of them were at that point being uncivil - it was just a "let's not go there" kind of comment.

As for Herzog - I definitely liked the art, but I think what really got me was the creators use of the website.  They've really made the whole site work together.  Yes the story is simplistic so far and I can see how some would be put off by the 4th wall-ish opening pages but I enjoyed what I read and saw solid potential there - good art, horror/comedy mix-up, some clever bits of writing. 

There's probably something else in there that I'm failing to describe - I see a lot of webcomics and usually when I write a short excited blurb about one (which isn't really that often) it's because it made me excited about it - I don't go into thoughtful review mode unless I'm actually sitting down to write a real review.

 

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Xaviar Xerexes 

I am a Modern Major Generality.

I run this place! Tip the piano player on the way out.

Oh, no worries :)

Aleph's picture

I was just appreciating his 'getting' where I was coming from, not making a sideways comment on your comment. No worries. Heh, I say exactly what I mean 99 percent of the time, so you don't have to worry about my slipping subtext in. If something I say is interpretable in a less than direct way, that's uuuusually something I didn't detect, or a rare attack of the snarkies.

I totally get being excited too :) Every once in a while something just strikes you and makes you go 'ooh!'. I love painted comics, I wish I could bring myself to do them but ahmigahd I already spend way too much fretting over getting the digital stuff to look the way I want, it would be months between updates if I were doing it in a medium without undo. But my true love is Golden Acrylics. (*swoon*) :-D So it's natural I would be looking more at the technique when responding to it than somebody not obsessed with paint.

Totally not getting down on you for loving it, I just couldn't see past the ultra-warm palette and fourth wall issues. That's mostly just an admission of bias, on its face. But obviously HtV did hit home with some people, which is great :)

You broke it, Xerexes! It

Gordon McAlpin's picture

You broke it, Xerexes! It won't load for me...

Multiplex is a twice weekly humor comic about the staff of the Multiplex 10 Cinemas and the movies that play there.

It's working for me now though

Xaviar Xerexes's picture

There was some kind of DOS attack earlier

 

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Xaviar Xerexes 

I am a Modern Major Generality.

I run this place! Tip the piano player on the way out.

Hmm.

Aleph's picture

Not impressed at all, but then, comics that start out conversational with the audience and fishing for a concept lose my interest quickly. Don't really understand what's supposed to be so beautiful about this either. A heavily cadmium pallette doesn't really scream 'ethereal' to me.

I don't see what makes you

Muerte Bird's picture

I don't see what makes you think it is fishing for a concept. It seems to be very comfortable in where it is going. As for the red/yellow color palette, that may have something to do with all the lava.

Umm...

Aleph's picture

The first four pages where he discusses with the audience and creator whether or not to include a Chtulhu-like monster or a hamster would be my first clue.

I call the palette cadmium-heavy because it is almost exclusively on the warm side of the spectrum. Even colours which should be cool accents are mixed in warm ways, such as the greens. Since it's an art study, it's constructive criticism to point this out-- only the purples are mixed at all cool, and they're under-utilized. Greens are tough to mix, but I think he should have mixed using more cerulean and less cobalt blues, and gone for a lemon rather than cadmium tone of yellow for the main character if the backgrounds were going to be so cadmium-heavy. It's not just the reds and yellows, it's the burnt sienna and purples mixed with vermillions rather than alizarian crimson, and the dusky cobalt doesn't help offset that.

Herzog's painter needs to recognize that the cooler side of the pallette is a useful tool to make sure the composition does not become visually tiresome is all. I didn't say it's bad art, it's nice in places, just that I don't see how the cadmium-heavy palette could be characterized as all that ethereal, as it was characterized above.

Your own comic art indicates

Muerte Bird's picture

Your own comic art indicates that you might not know what you're talking about. Good use of vocabulary, though. It is almost convincing.

Huh

Aleph's picture

What nerve did I hit, I wonder?

My own comic art isn't done with blended paints, it's digitally painted. Exactly what about it indicates I don't know how to mix colours? I have a blue wash over the night scenes right now, if you look at different points in the previous arcs you'll see I warm things up and cool them down as the mood of the piece warrants. Granted my colour sense is not perfect-- I complain about that all the time in the artist's notes-- but that doesn't mean I don't know how to mix colours on a palette nor that I don't understand the difference between a vermillion and a crimson. Seriously, I wouldn't bother trying to fake the commentary if I didn't know what I was talking about.

If you took this personally because you're involved in the art and pretending not to be, don't take it as any kind of attack on the work itself. Just trying to offer some actual constructive comments that might lead to a more pleasing composition. Sorry I wasn't sycophantic enough for ya, but, you can find lots of that around here if you go looking.

Just lemme know what part of this image indicates I am not qualified to talk about balancing a pallette? Because that's a really irritating claim to be making, and I'd like to see what qualifies you to tell me I'm not entitled to an opinion on these matters. And just so you know? I was listing the tube colours in an attempt to be extra helpful. Would help an artist know what I was suggesting and give them ideas as to why things were coming out warmer or duskier than they ought to. It was an attempt to be nice, not to put anyone down.

I've always felt obligated

Muerte Bird's picture

I've always felt obligated to call out BS when I hear it and I've never particularly liked being talked down to, just because I'm not an artist. I don't think the artist even visits this forum, so if you want to give him/her constructive criticism perhaps you should take it to the forum on their site. Actually, I've already taken the liberty of linking this thread there, though I don't know that they have found it yet.

Projecting much?

Aleph's picture

I wasn't talking down to you. You seemed at least knowledgeable enough about paint to know what I meant by cadmium-heavy palette, just seemed to be misunderstanding what I meant by it, so I went into more detail. So exactly what about that was BS? It was an opinion, and I backed it up with my assessment of what I was seeing, That's not BS, that's actually treating you like you can have a discussion about it.

I was having a discussion with you about what I meant since you opened the discussion with me about the cadmium palette comment. I was being clear and constructive because it seemed like a good idea.

You're the one who started lobbing terms like BS around and then said I was faking my vocabulary. I have no idea where you get off taking my opinion of someone else's work so personally if you're not involved in the work yourself, but, you still haven't backed up your claim that my work says I don't have a valid opinion. I supplied the sample. Explain.

It's no use saying 'red' to a painter when you mean crimson or vermillion. Paints naturally mix or characterize in certain ways, and they're easiest identified by the tube colour. It's not about talking down to anybody or sounding impressive, it's just about what is warm and what is cool in the paint world. Sorry you took it personally, but, there's no call to respond this way.

Please Keep Things Civil

Xaviar Xerexes's picture

I'm not saying this is uncivil but I thought I'd just ask nicely that we keep discussing and not venture into shouting.

No reason to to turn an interesting discussion into a something else.  Thanks!

 

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Xaviar Xerexes 

I am a Modern Major Generality.

I run this place! Tip the piano player on the way out.

Civil is good

Aleph's picture

Oh, no worries-- totally not my thing to get into the 'OMG UR SO GHEY!!!' fests.

I guess I do aggro a bit to being told my work speaks poorly of me, given that I work so damn hard on it, but, I am so not interested in a public hair-pulling fest ;)

Seems to be down this morning

Xaviar Xerexes's picture

 The site is down for me this morning... must be something else, I don't think Comixpedia linkage is quite to the level of a "wanging" yet...

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Xaviar Xerexes 

I am a Modern Major Generality.

I run this place! Tip the piano player on the way out.

DDoS attack

They had some sort of DDoS attack on the domain server. It seems to mostly work right now.

wicked!

bobweiner's picture

Herzog the Vile is very impressive - the artwork blew me away - and the color palette and painterly look give it that ethereal feel. I didn't know about this comic before - but now it's handily bookmarked. Thanks for sharing the link, xerexes!

-Krishna

Krishna M. Sadasivam Cartoonist, "The PC Weenies" http://www.pcweenies.net