So by now I assume most have seen the announcements regarding Modern Tales, that being Eric Burns editing the original MT site and the whole not just for subscribers thing.
As an MT creator myself I'm not going to say too much because you, dear forumite, would not me remiss in accusing me of simply towing the company line, but there's a lot to talk about methinks, and that's my gig here, so what do ya'll think?
For webcomic fans:
If you're not currently a reader of any of the MT sites, does this change encourage you to check them out as there's now no financial risk in viewing a good deal of the material?
If you're a current MT subscriber do you feel like this devalues your subscription? What if your favorite comic becomes free?
Do your worship Eric Burns like unto a god? People seem to respect his tastes and now he's not just suggesting comics, he's giving them his personal stamp of approval by taking them under his wing? Do you feel like any comic on MT proper has now been uber-snarked?
For creators:
Does this make you want to bring your material for submission to an MT site now that you don't have to concern yourself with a readership drop due to a subscription wall?
If you're already on a MT site, does it alter your thoughts on your current residence?
For everyone:
Is this a big deal at all? Will Keenspot or other publishers/collectives react?
Or, do you just think Joey Manely is the devil himself and couldn't care less?
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Serializer!?
When's Serializer coming back?Â
____
Xaviar Xerexes
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Gnaw.
I've installed the new
At this point, we're waiting for the editors to decide to relaunch. Tom has told me that it's taken so long already, he doesn't see a reason to rush on the editorial side of things (and his editorial task is much more difficult, because of the long hiatus, the scattering of the cartoonists to the winds, plus the fact that the serializer cartoonists generally were less web-inclined anyway than those on the other sites, with a few exceptions like Eric Millikin and Chris Onstad).
I'm looking forward to seeing what he and K. Thor Jensen come up with.
Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com
Joey Manely
I think he's the bomb! I'm really glad he's so helpful and that webcomicsnation.com is avaliable so I can publish my little comics. More readers can only help us :)
Nix
www.darkfedora.comÂ
I'll admit I've never read
I'll admit I've never read anything on MT, nor do I know anything about Eric Burns beyond the fact that he is one of many new dudes who have started writing about webcomics in 2005, and he seems to be associated with a certain clique of comics. To me at least, Modern Tales seems to exist only in it's own area of the web, and doesn't seem to reach out to the rest of the community. I'm not saying that in an accusing tone, I'm just pointing out that I've never seen links to them from sites, never seem them on any top lists, can't recall any being mentioned in web logs. Granted, my awareness of all things webcomic isn't that great, but this is just my experience. To answer you question, no, this move won't really draw my interest to MT. I read comics for art and writing, not names. I would like to see more of what MT has to offer though, in terms of comics. Maybe having more non-subscriber stuff will make it more accessible? Who knows.
As a reader, I'm thrilled.
As a reader, I'm thrilled. There's only so far I can stretch my dollar, so I never paid for subscription comics. I save that money for print comic collections and The Merch. There have been a lot of great comics I've missed out on, or never had a chance to really get to know as a result. So, I'm looking forward to stuffing my bookmark list with a whole lotta new comics.
As a webcomic creator? A revenue based on a collective ad system replacing reader subscription does sound a whole lot more appealing. I would never succeed at locking away my archives as I don't really do a gag a day comic. I depend on readers getting into the story with the archive.
"Fenris" wrote: To me at
That's a valid criticism, not many MT artist don't so lists for one reason or another. Though depending on what blogs you surf, they do get some coverage.
Yeah, I know how ya' feel. Also doing a long format comic, you really do need to get people into the story to get their interest, and that can be tough off one page.
The big change at Modern
The big change at Modern Tales didn't convince me to read/sign up to Modern Tales at all. Because I am a cheap person. If I have money, that might change. I don't, so I can't pay. Even if there are completely free comics at the site. I feel there are great contents locked under closed door and the free contents are just there to attract me to pay. If I need to get access to one of their greatest contents on their site, than I won't view it at all. Eric Burns still didn't convince me to even try to read Modern Tales or beg my parents for money. I don't worship or look up to him on his opinion/review/rants about webcomics. Sure he might bring good comics or make MT a better subscription site. The main thing is the lack of money that didn't convince. If I don't have money to pay to read MT's contents, I won't read it. It that simple. You may called me a cheap person, but I have no money.
Wow, what a cheap person.
Wow, what a cheap person.
kidding.
I'm not sure how the division of free vs not free will go, and wouldn't be at liberty to speak if I did, but if that's the way ya feel, that's the way ya feel. I think it's safe to assume this change in the MT gameplan can't possibly please possibly please all of the people all of the time, but might please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time. I guess we'll see.
"timdemeter" wrote: I'm
Joey had mentioned the free part to me awhile back (see the mini-interview with him in the 25 People in Webcomics article) but of course the Eric thing is news to me. Eric has interesting, eclectic taste - I'm most curious right now as to how he'll shape the line-up for the free part.
If you're not currently a
If you're not currently a reader of any of the MT sites, does this change encourage you to check them out as there's now no financial risk in viewing a good deal of the material?
Sorta. In that if someone mentions a comic and I follow a link I'll be able to actually read a decent portion of it now?
Do your worship Eric Burns like unto a god?
No.
People seem to respect his tastes and now he's not just suggesting comics, he's giving them his personal stamp of approval by taking them under his wing? Do you feel like any comic on MT proper has now been uber-snarked?
I think he will approve a lot of comics.
For creators:
Does this make you want to bring your material for submission to an MT site now that you don't have to concern yourself with a readership drop due to a subscription wall?
No.
For everyone:
Is this a big deal at all?
Not really.
Will Keenspot or other publishers/collectives react?
Not at all!
hurray!
Rezo pretty much gave my
Rezo pretty much gave my answers. So MT will have much more "free" content. I'll give it a look now and then. And when I say free I mean advertiser supported vs. subscriber supported. There is no free.
Re: The Modern, Modern Tales
Well yeah, at the moment I'm subscribing for the content for X amount of comics (I JUST paid for my subscription this month believe it or not). If the comics I'm interested in become free, I'll be subscribing for a lesser value of X. So the content I get from the subscription, is decreased. That doesn't mean I'll stop visiting MT, it's just if all the comics I read but 1 or 2 "it's okay, but I wouldn't pay for it"-comics become free, then I'm going to stop paying my subscription. But if a ton of comics I'm not interested in become free, it'll have no bearing on me subscribing. If a ton of new content joins MT that's free, it won't have any bearing on my MT subscription. I'm currently subscribing for X amount of comics. No matter how much is added to MT, I'll continue to subscribe whilever X doesn't get lower. X getting lower is cause for me to reconsider, but doesn't automatically mean I'll stop subscribing. (I'm using X because I'm actually reading the backlogs of a ton of MT content, so when I finish reading all the backlogs in the comics I'm interested in, I'll know then how much updating comics of MTs I'm actually reading ;) It might be with nothing becoming free, there just might not be enough currently updating comics to keep my interest. However I do think I'll have trouble following a Paradigm Shift without access to the archives, and that's one comic I'm willing to subscribe to just so I get access to the archives).
Sorta. On the one hand a lot of (most?) of the new content on MT will be stuff Eric likes. But on the other hand, I'm sure he'll recognise good content that he might not like, but feels that the stuff will complement MT's line-up well. So it's only really a "sorta snarking" on all the content he approves.
Yeah, the drawback to joining MT has just decreased significantly. However will creators of free comics get a portion of the ad-revenue they generate like Keenspot? If not, then there are still reasons to join MT, but it is a factor to not join (no matter what MT does, there'll be reasons for and against joining ;)).
To be honest, I'm having a bit of difficulty seeing why this is such a big deal actually. It could mean another nail has been hit on the subscription-coffin (although I wouldn't say it's dead yet, as the other MT-family sites do well with it AFAIK), and Eric joining MT will hopefully mean out of date info and broken links will be taken care of, along with more creators being added. It also means there's someone besides Joey Manley (who I imagine is extremely busy running the MT family and WCN and any other project he has) looking after MT who can give it more time and consideration.
But it being Eric that's been made editor, I don't see why that in particular is such a major thing. I don't mean to belittle Eric's achievement, it's a great achievement for anyone who was given the role. But the opinion I got from Eric's snark was that him in particular getting the job is big for webcomics (as opposed to just big for Eric ;)). If that does turn out to be the case, great. But I'm having trouble seeing how (and I think it's great for Eric he got the job. Not only does he have yet another webcomic related job, he is getting paid in his degree, which is a big thing for him. So it's a great personal achievement for him).
As for how the other collectives will react. Well I don't think they will too much. Keenspot (IMO) has shown itself to be completely inefficient with creating subscriber-only content. There are some subscriber-only comics, and a wide range of subscriber-only content, but AFAIK (and I've never subscribed so I'm quite possibly wrong), it's fairly pitiful when compared with Graphic Smash. So even though MT is becoming a more active competitor to Keenspot with a similar set-up, I can't see Keenspot doing much to compete against it. If MTs line-up gets too large, Keenspot might increase it's own. But that's the only thing I can see Keenspot doing to compete.
As for other collectives/publishers. They're all pretty small time compared with MT and Keenspot. There are some pretty big collectives, but I don't think they're at MT or Keenspots level. So they might not do much of anything in reaction.
Err... are you saying if MT has a good free comic, that whilever it has a great subscriber comic, you won't read the good free comic?
Re: The Modern, Modern Tales
Yes. But only because I always felt bad just reading the daily freebie and not suporting someone who wanted the money, so I tended not to read at all.
I like the Eric Burns individual that is presented to me on the web as a person. Maybe I'd even like him in person. I dont share 90% of his tastes in webcomics, but I'm happy to read why he likes them.
Shaenon Garrity's butt is going to get SO sniffed
I already got the invite when it was a subscription site. I accepted it, then a few months later I changed my mind due to losing the love for making comics. (Though I gave a Joey a few bullshit reasons that I did believe I meant at the time... though now I realize I was just trying to convince myself to keep making art when I didnt want to.) I can see the benefits of hanging with the MT crew: The cross promotion, being in the same league as honest to goodness comicbook pros, as opposed to hobbyists who got lucky and found an audience. (Not a dis, just a fact) The negative is that my current site is sharp looking and having a MT banner on it will just ruin the design.
Yes. Just because it means a big change in the landscape. No. Because readers will stick to their very insular reading habits.
Knowing the webcomic players as I do, it'll range from "Congratulations guys" to "It's about time you all do things the way I do them, for I am lovely and am to be held up as your shining example."
The fact that Joey is not sitting on the subscription model and building a giant wall to cut ModernTales off from the rest of the webcomic world is admirable, and just plain smart. It shows that Joey has his eye on what's going on in the webcomic community at large. Although this may surprise a few who only know him as king of the empire, it doesn't suprise me a bit.
I think that ModernTales lost some momentum while WebcomicNation was being planted, nurtured and brought to life. With WCN now rocking and rolling, I can see ModernTales jumping back into the spotlight.
The addition of Eric Burns is a good thing. Joey has needed an extra set of hands for sometime.
As a former member of the ModernTales family, and a current member of the 01Comics family, I wish ModernTales nothing but the best and hope that these changes make MT the place to be once again. Competition only fuels the creative fires. 2006 is looking pretty good to me. :)
"Furtado" wrote: 2006 is
It really is, isn't it? This MT move does show how the business has changed. And that there still is definitely business to be had. Artistically this will be good too because there are bound to be some excellent but unknown webcomics getting exposure this way. Not everyone with a good webcomic knows how or has time to promote it themselves.
Man, finally shook off my
Man, finally shook off my hangover. Happy New Year everyone.
Yeah, I think the one thing seeming to be a common idea here is change and experimentation is a good thing in this 'still in diapers medium of ours.' And while people do screw around with payment systems and interface and all that all time, this one will be particularly interesting to watch as it effects so many individual comics in one fell swoop.
there wasn't any big
there wasn't any big announcement about it (that i saw anyway) but Graphic Smash will also be changing to a large percentage of free content with some titles still subscription only. and i know i'm not naughty to say this, since T Cambell has already mentioned it in his blog!
Yup, and its safe to assume it's going down at GAM and Serializer then,as well.
"xmung" wrote: there
Oh good! There's been one GS title I've wanted to read very recently, and while I am willing to subscribe to GS just for that one title, I won't be doing it while I subscribe to MT. So if that title (it's The Replacements by the way) goes free, no need to wait on reading it :)
"xmung" wrote: there
Excellent!
Don't know, but I do know the Replacements is freaking excellent.
The Replacements has moved
The Replacements has moved to Webcomics Nation.
For the record? When the new site launches, the significant majority of all webcomics content will be free. Subscription webcomics will be few and far between.
So! You don't have to spend money to check it out.
Better?
Benefits of Free Modern Tales for Creators?
So more details are out (see news post that just went up on front page) and I've copied a bit of it:
So as far as compensation goes does this mean as a practical matter the cartoonist is as good as on their own or will the private ad server mentioned also collectively sell ads on behalf of MT in which the cartoonists might receive a split?
Why? Why not? I haven't really had any insightful thoughts on the good bad or ugly of this. I don't think Keenspot allows for mirroring like this but I don't know for sure.
Will there be services available to MT Free creators that are not available to WebcomicsNation users or vice-versa?
The benefits of
The benefits of participating in any collective or portal are incremental at best. Unlike others, we are not pretending to offer the moon. Our goal is to provide those incremental benefits (taking advantage of the prestige of the Modern Tales brand, the ability to reach out to readers who like having everything in one place, the ability to use our automation tools -- including the tools originally built for WCN, but some others as well, and so on) without infringing on the cartoonist's ability to do what they were already doing (or what they'd like to do) on their own, or in collaboration with others. Incremental -- but real -- benefits with no drawbacks whatsoever. That's sort of the mantra of MT Free.
Joey
www.moderntales.com
It seems to me that MT is
It seems to me that MT is now functioning as something of an exclusive portal site, if I'm using the term right. Basically, "here's a list of comics we think you'll like, presented in one place for your browsing ease." So the advantage I see here is you can take advantage of that without messing with your existing readership. I know I had someone tell me recently "I came to GraphicSmash for Fans, but I stay for Reckless Life," so there is some value in that "joiner mentality," which I believe is what Joey is proposing.
"joeymanley" wrote:
It looks like it's still at Graphic Smash where it's continuing to update as well.
D'oh! You're right! Those
D'oh! You're right! Those who want to buy a subscription to JUST "The Replacements" can do so more cheaply over on WCN (and buy directly from Jerzy and Sara to boot), while those who want to buy it as part of a larger package can do so on GS. Sorry for the confusion.
Joey